How To Win With Content Marketing


Shelly Kramer on Content Marketing - Midwest Marketing Show

Featuring: Shelly Kramer

Recorded on: April 29, 2015


Links for Shelly Kramer:

LinkedIn Facebook Twitter V3b Agency

Show Description

Shelly Kramer, one of my good friends is a  Kansas City marketer, joined the show to talk about content marketing.  Shelly kicks off the show walking us through her start in the agency world in the early days and later she started her own agency with great success.  After introductions we spend the majority of the time geeking out about content marketing and how brands can look beyond the campaign.

[Warning: We had some audio issues during the recording of this show.  Please be assured that the hardware has been fired and the replacements will be here in the next few days]

The Threes

For our threes section on the show, Shelly addresses three tips she would give a company that wants to maximize their investment in content marketing:

  • Understand your audience – creating audience personas and doing your research about your customers is a necessity.
  • Don’t treat social as an afterthought – to be effective in social media, you have to invest time and resources into your social media strategy. 
  • Always let the data be your guide – leverage your data to know what makes sense for your next move.

Influencers

  • User Experience Professionals – leaders like Jacob Nielson and communities like UXPAKC are great sources for information on human factors and experiences.
  • Jeffrey Rohrs – Author of Audiences and a Conference Speaker.

Show Transcript

Jeff Julian
Welcome back again to the Midwest Marketing Show. Today I am very excited about this guest. Shelly Kramer was one of the first marketing influencers that kind of started interacting with me last summer. I did a presentation on agile marketing and Shelly wrote I think it was a 10 page blog post on that presentation. Then after that we became really good friends and she's helped mold my understanding of marketing as I make this move from developer into marketer. Shelly, welcome.
Shelly Kramer
Well, hi Jeff. It's my pleasure to be here finally. You've been asking me so many times and our schedules just haven't worked out. It's great that you've been tenacious.
Jeff Julian
That's the nice thing about the weekly show is we've always got another week we can record.
Shelly Kramer
Well, it's great to be here.
Jeff Julian
Yeah. Why don't you tell us a little about yourself and then how you kind of got started in marketing.
Shelly Kramer
It's kind of a long story because I'm really old. I started my career in marketing a million years ago at an agency here in Kansas City called Barkley. I went in on my own when I was in my middle thirties kind of by accident. Just trying to figure out what my next agency move was going to be. I started, before I made a decision, I started doing some consulting work and little did I know that would set me on a task to being an agency owner all these years later. I've owned my business for 21 years this year.
Jeff Julian
Wow.
Shelly Kramer
Yeah, a long time. You know it's funny, I remember in the early days listening to people and different advice that you get. A lot of advice when it comes to business is that the key to profitability is specialization and really kind of getting in the niche and owning that niche. That always seemed really boring to me and I think that probably some of the keys not only to my success but my happiness is that I'm wired like an entrepreneur and I love change and adapting to change and I love learning. For me, resisting the urge to specialize is really what keeps what I do exciting. I work across all verticals. I have clients that are in the B to B space. I have clients that are in the B to C space. I've worked with startups. I've worked with enterprise level companies. I do a lot with small to midsize businesses and everybody has a different challenge. I feel like what, I'm a brand strategist. What I get to do every day is crawl inside my client's heads and really understand their business, sometimes different than how they understand them because I'm coming at it with a fresh perspective and really help them grow their business. I think that's a pretty exciting way to spend your career.
Jeff Julian
Yeah, sounds like you guys are quite agile.
Shelly Kramer
Exactly.
Jeff Julian
Yeah, I mean it's a blast seeing people adopt something that when you adopt it over 10 years ago, to see their eyes light up again and have that conversation from the beginning. I love it.

You guys have changed a lot recently, right? You've had the agency and now you've got kind of this media group. Can you walk us through what V3B is and what those day to day activities are.
Shelly Kramer
Sure. My company was called V3 Integrated Marketing for a long time. About six months ago, I started doing some collaborating with a friend of mine that owns an agency in Chicago and both of us do a lot in the B to B space and had a lot of synergies and just things that worked with regard to our personalities and our respective strengths and areas of focus. As we started collaborating, we started having conversations about what the future of this collaboration was.

We both had small but very successful agencies and we decided that what we really wanted to do is embark on some growth strategies on our own. We decided that together, our growth potential was greater than either one of us was separately. We decided to combine forces and merge our companies and that was really where V3B, V3 Broadsuite is our name, V3B was born. It's kind of new news, but it's not really new news for us, because we've been working as a team for a while and just kind of unveiling all that has been recent.

We also own a separate company that's a media company. That company is called Broadsuite Media Group. The agency client V3B serves our clients in a variety of different ways as an agency would. The media group really is about creating rich media content. That might be in the form of video shows, podcasts, those we do. We do through the media group we might do influence their campaigns for brands. We work with brands like Dell and IBM and SAP. Influencer marketing is kind of a pretty big thing for brands these days. Especially brands in the tech space. We have a lot of expertise in the tech space, especially when it comes to things like mobility or cloud or technology or data. Anyway, we've got a lot going on.
Jeff Julian
Sounds good. He'll have to come on a show sometime.
Shelly Kramer
Yeah, absolutely.
Jeff Julian
Today, we're going to focus a lot on content marketing. Just like we've talked about brands and the influencer marketing and really how they're starting to embrace content marketing. There always seems to be a question of value and is it being delivered. Why do you think brands are so quick to react in to campaign mentality to content marketing and how and how can they get past that?
Shelly Kramer
It's funny. I think that you phrased it really nicely. Content marketing is not a campaign. If you approach it as a campaign with that mentality, you're probably going to fail. Content marketing is way of communicating with, interacting with, and serving your customer base. It's not a campaigning. It's not a sales.

More importantly, I think that ... By the way, brands have been doing storytelling for a long time. Content marketing isn't exactly new. It's just the latest thing that people have embraced and are treating it as this new thing. It's really not.

The problem with content marketing is that, and I say this a lot when I speak on this topic and the writers in the audience always want to stone me. The reality of it is that creating great content is easy. In the big scheme of themes, it's the easy part. Getting anybody to read it is the other part of the equation and the most important part of the equation, yet that's the part of the process that most people aren't paying any attention to.
Jeff Julian
Exactly.
Shelly Kramer
All these efforts for writing and creating great content and you're fighting against more noise than there's every been in the online space, and more clamoring for attention of your target audience, and a more scattered attention span. You look at that content that you're creating and pushing out, and wondering why it's not the Holy Grail because everybody has been talking about it being the Holy Grail of everything and it's not working for you. We have this happen all the time.

I look at people's companies on a regular basis. One of the first things I do is I go to their website and I take a look at their website, I take a look at the content on their website. I take a look at their blog if it exists. I can tell how much their content is being shared.

I was talking with a good client yesterday and he was frustrated because he's been a startup, a really awesome tech startup company that has a terrific product. He'd been engaging with somebody that had been writing content for him. I looked at the content and it was the worst content on the plant. It was not intended for consumption by his target audience who would be rabid for, the technology is a sports technology geared toward high school football coaches and an audience that is just hungry for information that's relevant to them, yet the content on the blog was totally off topic and it was poorly written and it was less than 200 words of content. The customer was frustrated because he'd been working with this person for six months and paying for content that wasn't delivering any results. We live in a time of "buyer beware" being the words that you have to live by more than any before. Just because you have content doesn't mean it's going to work for you.
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
I think that's really what brands don't understand.
Jeff Julian
Yeah, the spray and pray mentality of creating content with value for your customers and then the idea that it's the field of dreams, you build it and they will come. Just because you publish it doesn't mean one, that Google bot even cares about it, and two, that the audience that you have will ever be able to dig down through your website to find it. It's all about getting it out there and being a part of the story and getting involved in community and not just broadcasting to them. This isn't advertising, this isn't a billboard. This is an interactive piece. You have to be part of that community.
Shelly Kramer
That really is, I know one of the things we're going to talk about it is what's the most overlooked part of the process when it comes to success and you just hit on it. It really is just understanding that this is not advertising, people aren't looking for you to broadcast your sales messages through your cooperate blog or any of the content you create. To me the most overlooked part is community building in the social media space and investing this time that it takes and you can't do this without rolling up your sleeves and doing the work and spending the time. People ask me sometimes, "Oh my gosh, you have 70,000 followers on Twitter. How did you ever get that? How did you ever get than many followers?" I laugh and say with all sincerity, "I earned them."
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
I developed a reputation for being interesting and funny and sharing information that is valuable or thought provoking or useful to people that I care about, and for being a human that people wanted to be connected to. That wasn't something that a tool did for me. That wasn't something that I hired a junior level person on my staff to do for me. That was something that I sucked it up and continued to suck it up and push up my sleeves and spend time. Not just on Twitter. On the platforms that are important to me. LinkedIn is important to me. Facebook is important to me. Facebook is important to me. All of those things help me not only be who I am on a daily basis, but help me talk about things that I think are important and talk about things that I know matter to my customers or my prospective customers or get feedback on things that I feel are important. I feel like the most overlooked part of the equation when it comes to social media is that people just aren't paying any attention to what's going on in the social media space and investing time building legitimate communities there. Always looking for the easy button. It doesn't exist. It shows if you try to use an easy button. They wonder why nobody is reading their content. Well, if all you're doing is publishing a blog post then pushing it out on Twitter or Facebook or LinkedIn and you think that's enough, then quite honestly today if you think that just because you share a blog post on your corporate Facebook page, or you share a blog post on Twitter than anybody is going to see it, without thinking about what kind of media spend do I need to think about putting behind some of these pieces of content that are especially important to me. You're not paying attention to what's going on in the online space.
Jeff Julian
I think it's so easy to get distracted with the very small wins and thinking that you're actually making progress. If I put a post out there and five people retweet it, that's not a big impact, that's actually very minimal. I think a lot of people just don't understand how large the world really is and how much impact you can have. When we started Geeks with Blogs the server lived under my desk and I wrote it in one night and I put it up there and I had one other blogger with me. We didn't have an audience at all. Over the first six years we built a huge audience. When you have two million people coming to your website looking for content, that's a big number. That's something that you can say okay, we can make movements on, we can really impact the world.
Shelly Kramer
Absolutely. Another question I ask when I'm giving presentations is, I ask people all the time, "How many of you have Google analytics on your website? Raise your hand." Not everybody in the room does. Then I ask, "How many of you look at your analytics every month? Every week? Every day?" I laugh and I say, "I'm such a geek that before I get out of bed every single day, I'm looking at my analytics for my own website and for every website of every client that we have so I know what's happening."
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
"What happened the day before, what attracted them to our site." I know. I have my finger on the polls. I know what's happening. If you're not paying attention to your data, I don't know how it is that you can serve your audience. I don't know how it is that you can ... Do you just guess on what the best things for you to write about are? The other thing that looking at your data will tell you, your point Jeff, is that your audience comes from all over. It's not just from the United States. Knowing the audience, looking at that data, and understanding the impact of the contact that you create can also help you from a strategic standpoint. Depending on where you're target customers are. Maybe they're places you didn't think they were.
Jeff Julian
Absolutely. I know whenever I, I'm just as bad as you so you're not alone. Anytime Geeks with Blogs would go down, the first thing that I would do is pull up Google analytics and look at how many live people were on the site because it's always a little late. It it's Sunday and it's dinner and I get the text message saying the site went down, pull up analytics, look, and it would be like 500 people. That was the motivation. 500 people were looking for an answer.
Shelly Kramer
500 people are relying on me. Oh my God !
Jeff Julian
Exactly. Most of the time on Sunday it was overseas. Those are 500 people looking for technology answers. That's what we were. We were a huge site of technology answers. Imagine looking back at 500 people and saying, "Hold on a second, I'm finishing dinner."
Shelly Kramer
Right.
Jeff Julian
I didn't want to rely on Google Cache or different ways they could get to the content. I would rather, "Hold on, let me go put the site back up." Use the same mobile device to remote into the server. Reboot stuff and get it up. It was all about that care and concern for the community and the reader that I just don't think brands have yet.
Shelly Kramer
It's interesting because it's funny to explain to your family. You're sitting down to dinner and something happens like, "I'll be right back. I've got 500 people waiting on me. I've got to fix this." They're just going, "Oh mom. Whatever it is you're talking about."
Jeff Julian
Yeah. Now that I don't have the community, "Dad get off Facebook."
Shelly Kramer
Exactly. Exactly.
Jeff Julian
The other interesting thing, we've kind of talked about it a lot, is agile. Me and you offline. I've been working on a book that's talking about the content development process and how to integrate Scrum and some of the agile techniques into your content marketing efforts. You have another take using agile which I think is amazing. That's incorporating agile into the content distribution model. You've got two sides of the house and there's a brick wall. How do you see people being able to use agile techniques and practices to distribute their content and to get to that wider audience and to build that community?
Shelly Kramer
I think that this is less about agile as you might think of it in terms of a process and all that sort of thing, and more about understanding human behavior and trying to understand human behavior as it relates to on the line. I say that because I just watched a movie. What was it? Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson in The Internship.
Jeff Julian
Oh yeah.
Shelly Kramer
I will admit to laughing more about then I have in a long time. I thought it was going to be a really stupid movie but I did enjoy it. For those of you not familiar with it, Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson lose their job in sales and they apply for and end up getting an internship with Google, which is not easy to do. Of course, they are the oldest interns on the planet. There's a lot of jokes about that but Vince Vaughn steadfastly refers to being online as being on the line. That's my new joke. On the line.

Anyway, I think that you have to, again, it all goes back to the audience that you serve. We have to get in a mindset as marketers, as salespeople, as customer service people. Whatever it is that you do, we have got to get in the mindset of the fact that our job is about serving customers and understanding their needs and being where they are and serving those needs in a human way. When I talk with people and people come to us all the time and say, "We need social media." I'll say, "Well, you know I'm not sure you do. Let's look at why you think you need social media and let's look at everything else that you're doing and then let's figure out the role that social plays." Social is really a small part of the big equation. I think that being agile in this process is putting yourself in the minds of the customer but also doing things like using monitoring and listening tools. You can start down this path with a hypothesis about where you'll find your people. If the way you're going about this from a social standpoint is a formulaic saying, okay social media means LinkedIn. Half the time people leave LinkedIn off the table which is stupid.
Jeff Julian
Dumb.
Shelly Kramer
LinkedIn and Facebook and Twitter. Having social quote unquote coverage means we're going to post one time a day to LinkedIn and two times a day to Facebook because we would never want to put too much content in people’s faces, and three times a day on Twitter and that's our formula. That's just the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A, there's no such thing as a formula like that that really makes sense, secondly, don't make assumptions that you know where your people are. Maybe your audience is on Reddit. Maybe your audience is on Tumblr. Maybe your audience is largely on Instagram. Maybe your audience is on Facebook, but guess what, there are way more users on Facebook from 8 to 11 PM than there are from 12 noon to 3 pm.
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
I realize that you might have a business that's a 9 to 5 business but that doesn't mean that's when your prospects are active in a social space. When I say you have to incorporate agile thinking, it's you have to quit thinking within the realm of what a business day looks like to you and you have to think about, and you have to again use your data and use monitoring and insights to help locate your people and you have to be where they are when they're there. Then you have to be testing the content that you're sharing in those spaces against itself and see what performs best. What do people respond to? What do they react with? What makes them laugh? What got the most engagement? What compelled somebody to action? What made these downloads happen? Then you have to adapt your strategy from a social standpoint pretty much on the fly every single day.
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
That, to me, is what being agile in the social realm means. Which is different than the process that you put into place when it comes to integrating agile into your content development. It's different but I think it's really an important mindset and to know that this is not something that, people can't be reduced to formulas. It might be easier for you to think that way, but that's not the way this works.
Jeff Julian
Oh, absolutely. I think you nail it when you talk about agile. Agile is broken down into components. One of those components, the most important one is customer satisfaction. Always, whatever you're doing, whatever process you're going through, you're focused on the customer satisfaction which you address by making sure you're targeting your customers correctly and being on the right platforms or building the right platforms. Then those other pieces like sustainable pace, being able to not burn yourself out. Find out what's going to work and implement a sustainable pace that you can repeat. If it is having tweets ready on Saturday because that's when people are still on social media or around LinkedIn. LinkedIn during the evenings because they might not feel comfortable looking on LinkedIn during the business day because it's kind of got hijacked by recruiters. All those things, you need to go out and test and then adapt. As an adaptive process. You nailed the nail on the head by addressing with agile. It doesn't have to be a process. It doesn't have to be cards and moving things. That's just way to get the motions down because a lot of people aren't used to the motions and to gamify the process essentially.
Shelly Kramer
When you write your book on agile, I could write the chapter on agile in social.
Jeff Julian
Yeah. I'll do a guest contributor. It's already in process so you better start working on that content now.
Shelly Kramer
Okay, I will.
Jeff Julian
One of the parts of the show that we do is called the Three's. We want to address three areas of whatever the topic is for this show and I think it's in content marketing here. Really, I want to address three areas of impact or how people can maximize their investment in content marketing.
Shelly Kramer
Three ways are really understand that the process has to start with your customers. So, understand your customers. Do buyer persona's. Write content that's tailored to those customers and the things that they wake up every day worrying about. Don't treat social as an afterthought. The only way your content is going to get red is if you create legitimate distribution channels and give people a reason to want to care about what it is you're writing about. That's takes time and energy. There's just no way to make that happen other than to suck it up and really build a community on the platforms where you know your customers are.

Lastly, always let your data be your guide. You have to be looking at your analytics. You have to be monitoring listening tools and you have to be taking the data that you get as a result of those things and letting that drive your content strategy, your content development, your content distribution.

I'll give you one example for that. One of the things we look at is where traffic comes from. We have a business Facebook page. We really don't use it very much. My business partner and I both have a pretty big personal presence on Facebook. I'm as prone on my Facebook profile. I have realized by the way that I'm not the norm. This is also the type of thing that I do for a living. I have like 4,000 Facebook friends. I have a big audience on Facebook. I'm as likely to be sharing a picture of my kid or a stupid video from Jimmy Fallon's Lip Sync contest or a piece that I wrote on the results of a CIO survey that were done by CIO magazine that was done today, that I'm interested in. What I look at on a regular basis is what happens with that content that I share on Facebook. Sometimes it resonates. Sometimes that content resonates so much with people. I'm looking at our traffic on the website and I can see that a significant amount of it comes from Facebook.
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
Even if it's not looking like ... Maybe a post hasn't been shared 20 or 30 times on Facebook and maybe it doesn't have a million likes on Facebook but that doesn't mean that people aren't consuming it. That's where you have to rely on your analytics to show you where traffic comes from, what's attracting them, so that you're paying attention on where to share that content as you go to distribute it across the web. Also, don't underestimate the power of email because that remains the most valuable channel.
Jeff Julian
I love it. I think that being the owner of your company, and I'm the owner of mine, it just makes sense to have your profile kind of be your company page in a way because the bus factor is so limited. In IT we call it the bus factor. How many metro buses will it take to disrupt your project if somebody crosses the road at the wrong time? In your case, that one bus is going to take the whole company out or make it slow way down because the owner is gone.
Shelly Kramer
Right.
Jeff Julian
Brands look at when they bring on people that have their own influence. They don't leverage that because they're afraid that they're going to build the audience on somebody else's influence. I think that's just naive. I think you need to look at your people and try to build up their name and their brand because it's just going to make you more effective by having five or six of these people that are in your organization. That way when you are pushing the message out, they have their own megaphone and you're not worried about the one that you have for your company.
Shelly Kramer
You know, I think it's just so short-sighted to be reluctant to put somebody front and center and to worry about, oh my God, what's going to happen if they leave? We've been hiring people for decades based on what they bring to the table. Before social media got to be a big deal, it was a coo to be able to hire a great creative director for an agency or a fantastic writer for an agency or a terrific account person that everybody knew. You know what I'm saying? We brought those people in to our company. The same is true if you're not in advertising. If you're a manufacturer and you bring a super awesome sales person that everybody in the industry knows, you hired them and they brought their Rolodex with them, their book of business, their reputation, their credibility. Their job was to use those things to make them successful working for you and your company. I'm not sure how that's any different when you talk about bringing somebody on board to be at the forefront of your online presence, whether it's social, whether it's in regard to your corporate blog, whether it's in regard to anything having to do with digital leadership. It's not any different than it ever has been. I don't understand why people get hung up on that.
Jeff Julian
I don't either. Most of the workforce is younger now. I think that's just because we're older. I think it's key for companies to sit down with all their employees and say, look, your brand, your name is just as important to your career as what you know. You need to be out there, you need to be blogging, you need to be building up your own audience. As you do that, we will reward you. If you write a book, you better believe we're going to reward you. We're going to promote it. We're going to do whatever we can. After time, if you want to leave, that's fine. Everybody leaves their company. We just want to have a good journey during the time and we want to be able to help our people succeed. I've been fired for having too much influence. It just makes business owners uncomfortable. They're like, I don't know what's going on. Is it moonlighting or is it not? It's like no, I'm building a name for myself and I'm bringing you along the journey.
Shelly Kramer
I think that you really need to understand as a business owner, especially those of us who are a little but older. You have to really understand the mindset and the culture of today's workforce and that it's completely different. I came of age in a time when job hopping was considered a bad thing. I also grew up in the agency business. The truth of the matter in the agency business is that you could never really make any money unless you moved around. Everybody spent three years here and then went here and then came back to agency number one and then went somewhere else. That was really the nature of the business in general. I think when we're looking especially at the millennial group, people don't aspire to work for the same company forever anymore. People are looking for change and growth and really for a great work life balance and for great opportunities. The other thing is that understanding that probably the best employees you could ever hire are people who are themselves creators.
Jeff Julian
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Shelly Kramer
Whether they're curating great music on Spotify or some other platform or whether they're videographers or whether they're writers or whether they're developers. Whatever it is, today's young people, and I don't just mean by an age group. I think the kind of millennial mindset of people is a group of doers who are always looking to experiment and to create. I don't think a lot of us even think about it. I'm very much of that mindset. I don't think for me so much as making a name for myself, it's just something that I'm passionate about and that I want to plant my flag on the ground on this. I think it's important and I think understanding that your workforce will be like that. If you go into every relationship thinking, Oh my God, I can't do this. What if they leave? The reality of it is, they probably are going to leave.
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
What you need to do it maximize your time together and learn from each other and grow. By the way, build T shaped people when you're in the process.
Jeff Julian
Exactly. I think that's a great way to wrap up the show. Since you are such an influencer to budding marketers out there, where do you go to get to the well and who do you find influence in when you're looking into marketing efforts?
Shelly Kramer
It's funny, I kind of always dread that question because it doesn't mean I don't find people in my space as influential. I think that I like things that are weird. I love things like usability experts like Jacob Neilson and his stuff. If you're not into UX, you don't know who he is. I think that I love things that like ... You know what, you were with me on this. I can't remember this guy's name but we were at a conference together and it was the one that I spoke at and I can't remember, Robert Rose.
Jeff Julian
The BMA event.
Shelly Kramer
Who was the guy that had the book on audience?
Jeff Julian
Oh Jeffrey Rohrs.
Shelly Kramer
I love him. I think he's awesome. So, awesome that I can't remember his name. Isn't that awesome?
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
Things like that that are more ... I'm not looking for marketing inspiration. I like the pieces that make up success. My user experience. People don't understand how important creating a great user experience is. I also love great writing. I don't really have just one example. I consume things like the New York Times or New Yorker Magazine or Mental Floss. To me, those are the kind of things. Those esoteric things. Those weird little things that are obscure bits of knowledge that I find fascinating. Then user experience and then really understanding an audience and how important building and serving and creating for that audience. I think those are the things that I find and the people that I find inspirational.
Jeff Julian
Cool. Next month I'll have to take you to the UXPA event here in Kansas City.
Shelly Kramer
That would be great.
Jeff Julian
The user group for user experience professionals. That's a community that we've been involved in a lot. I spoke at their international even last year, John and I did. I love those guys. You talk about Nielson. Nielson comes down off the mountain with his tablets to tell you what's good and bad in UX. What affordances you need and then everybody implements.
Shelly Kramer
Exactly.
Jeff Julian
Good little story about how we can get impact from other communities. You've seen the color wheel of hey pick these colors if you want to have these emotions and here's how brands do it. It has every color.
Shelly Kramer
Yeah.
Jeff Julian
I was sitting in a session in London at this event. This gal gets up there who is just way way way deep on the scientific side of color. She's like that's just completely wrong. There is no way that anybody's color can emote an experience because it's based on prior experiences. I was like, well what do you mean? She used another analogy but I'll use one for Kansas City. If you go to Columbia, Missouri, and you wear a red and blue shirt, you're not going to emote colors of emotion or anger or anything like that. You might, because that's the KU color. If you go to Lawrence and you wear black and gold, those colors are going to emote a completely different experience than if you were out somewhere in Iowa. Your colors are based off of so many different factors. Things like orange for alerts. That's fine but just be prepared to know that some people, orange means a completely different thing because of their experiences.
Shelly Kramer
You're talking to somebody who bought new living room furniture in the last year. We have an ottoman in the middle of two sofas that has yellow and grey chevron fabric in it. My husband looked at it and was like, "Oh my God, Missouri colors, what are you thinking?"
Jeff Julian
Yeah.
Shelly Kramer
Trust me. I had to fight with a KU guy about not giving me a hard time about the ottoman. Yeah, very spot on.
Jeff Julian
Exactly. I think as marketers, we look at content too quickly without actually doing the research behind it and we'll see the infographic and go, "I need to do that," or, "I need to do this," and really sit back and look at those human factors that are involved in all the decisions we make.
Shelly Kramer
Right, right.
Jeff Julian
Thank you for coming on the show. I hope to have you back again.
Shelly Kramer
Thank for having me, have a great day.